Well being written. I hit a wall recently with Federation and Capes. It is mainly I don't know where to go with it and I will rework them some more. Till then I made up a simple character. His name is Captain Star (see here: http://cyclopsfan1.deviantart.com/art/Captain-Star-line-art-123838997 ). Star was an idea I was messing around with for some time. Mainly a teen superhero. I was just having trouble on how to make my teen book different or at least realistic in the social dynamics part.
So I took some notes from my real life and some personalities of people I have met throughout school to create the comic "Captain Star" I will work on the actual name some more but I figured a solo book about a teen would be easier for me to write. I have been debating on how to release the book. I don't have the funds to print it, so I might look into web hosting some more, but even then I am not sure on the schedule of release. Most web comics are done one strip or page at a time spread out. This makes a 22 page comic take 11 weeks to release (that is about 3 months). Also they are written to make each page funny or something, but I write Captain Star to be present in a 22-28 page issue which some pages are devoted to social interactions. I know I wouldn't read those daily but in a single issue it is a great as it builds the story without it being disjointed by several day gaps.
So I think once I find a suitable webhost I will release a comic monthly (or even two times a month if I can build up enough issues before going live). I am eager for this to take place. Yet I hope I can improve as an artist as the series progresses. I am getting better each sketch but I am not Alex Ross just yet.
So I will embark on an ambitious project in which I will write and illustrate every issue for months. Not many pros do it and I will be doing this. Oh yeah I forgot that I still have like 5 other comic projects in mind. This is why I am going to label my comics as CBO comics, which stands for Comic Book Overkill comics (don't tell me it is redundant when DC comics stands for Detective comics comics).
With love,
The Nicest Jerk You Will Ever Know, writer/artist/editor/editor-in-chief/publsher of CBO Comics.
Tuesday, June 2, 2009
Monday, May 4, 2009
An amateur adventure through the process of comic book writing.
Disclaimer: I am just an amateur writer and don't know the true inner workings of comic book writing. I am just speaking of personal experiences without any formal training or experiences. I am not a published writer nor a well read one. I desire to be and this is, again, just a brief detailing of my experiences in self taught comic book writing.
Ever since I started reading comics again a couple years ago I wanted to write them. I immediately began primitively sketching characters and writing up back stories. This wouldn't be my first attempt at comic book writing. I started writing comics as early as 3rd Grade. So I had a basic grasp on how to do it this time around.
Problem started arising when I wanted to tell grander tales that couldn't be contained in 8-10 pages. So to remedy the problem I started dissecting comics and tracking down the scripts to compare to the pages. Luckily for me one of the first trades I bought earlier on was 52. 52 contained a lot of the the extra nuts and bolts that go into comic book writing, and I ate it up. I started to read comics not for enjoyment, but for education as they were the only tools I had to study the art. I soon learned that I was no where near ready to write a comic the way I wanted.
So I began experimenting with script writing techniques. To understand the difficulty that comes with writing a comic book script, one my see an example. So here is a rough example of a script you might see in a big name comic like The Avengers, Thor, or X-men.
Page One
Alright on this page I want about 5 panels [or cells depending on the comic] arranged in the following order. Panels 1 through 4 will be evenly spaced squares. 1-2 on the top. 3-4 on the bottom. I want Panel 5 to be on the bottom of the page and be the width of two panels together and the height of one of the the smaller panels.
Alright on this page I want about 5 panels [or cells depending on the comic] arranged in the following order. Panels 1 through 4 will be evenly spaced squares. 1-2 on the top. 3-4 on the bottom. I want Panel 5 to be on the bottom of the page and be the width of two panels together and the height of one of the the smaller panels.
Panel One: In this panel I want Character A and Character B to be talking. There will also be a caption box in the upper right hand corner.
Caption
Meanwhile
Character A
What do you mean?
Character B?
I mean this
This process as you can see is tedious and honestly can be more or less tedious depending on your artist or co-writer. I unfortunately didn't have an artist or co-writer. So I have to write the most tedious complex script that includes the placement of bubbles, captions, characters, and background. This is without a set writer. Of course there is another method to writing I didn't think about till reading more into comic writing.
That method would prove to be the easiest and simplest for me, outside of doing my own art. That method is writing a basic script and including a breakdown sketch of the scene. Instead of writing the placement of the characters I sketched the whole layout and blocking. I like this method but only works if I could find an artist. Sadly I haven't been able to find one that will work for free. Outside of dating an artist (which I have considered) I would have to illustrate my own comics. Not that hard most would say, but most don't have a weak art style like me.
So I came to a crossroads. One path I could continue the basic script, breakdown method. Another path would be write the most tedious script ever. The third option would be pay for an artist (which I wasn't about to do). The fourth one (and simplest) would be to quit writing the comics and move on with my life. The final option would be sit down with a piece of paper, a pen, and force myself to become a better artist.
I decided on going down two paths simultaneously. Them being the basic script, breakdown method and forcing myself to become a better artist. I soon learned that it isn't an easy road to travel. A great amount of crinkled, ripped up paper came from my desk as I grew frustrated at myself. Eventually after about a year of practice I achieved a point that I feel that I can actually start illustrating the comics, and beginning soon I will start posting them online via some web host client for Web comics. Not my ideal situation but it will work for now. Hopefully I can build a fan base to warrant myself purchasing a domain, till then I will be hunting the Internet for web host clients. Hopefully I will have 12 issues written and mostly illustrated by August allowing me to update them regularly through the school year during which I have the most difficulty devoting time to it. Here is to me actually getting some where with this idea.
PS
I will probably write a more detailed blog on the writing process, it is even more complex then presented here and requires some knowledge.
Meanwhile
Character A
What do you mean?
Character B?
I mean this
This process as you can see is tedious and honestly can be more or less tedious depending on your artist or co-writer. I unfortunately didn't have an artist or co-writer. So I have to write the most tedious complex script that includes the placement of bubbles, captions, characters, and background. This is without a set writer. Of course there is another method to writing I didn't think about till reading more into comic writing.
That method would prove to be the easiest and simplest for me, outside of doing my own art. That method is writing a basic script and including a breakdown sketch of the scene. Instead of writing the placement of the characters I sketched the whole layout and blocking. I like this method but only works if I could find an artist. Sadly I haven't been able to find one that will work for free. Outside of dating an artist (which I have considered) I would have to illustrate my own comics. Not that hard most would say, but most don't have a weak art style like me.
So I came to a crossroads. One path I could continue the basic script, breakdown method. Another path would be write the most tedious script ever. The third option would be pay for an artist (which I wasn't about to do). The fourth one (and simplest) would be to quit writing the comics and move on with my life. The final option would be sit down with a piece of paper, a pen, and force myself to become a better artist.
I decided on going down two paths simultaneously. Them being the basic script, breakdown method and forcing myself to become a better artist. I soon learned that it isn't an easy road to travel. A great amount of crinkled, ripped up paper came from my desk as I grew frustrated at myself. Eventually after about a year of practice I achieved a point that I feel that I can actually start illustrating the comics, and beginning soon I will start posting them online via some web host client for Web comics. Not my ideal situation but it will work for now. Hopefully I can build a fan base to warrant myself purchasing a domain, till then I will be hunting the Internet for web host clients. Hopefully I will have 12 issues written and mostly illustrated by August allowing me to update them regularly through the school year during which I have the most difficulty devoting time to it. Here is to me actually getting some where with this idea.
PS
I will probably write a more detailed blog on the writing process, it is even more complex then presented here and requires some knowledge.
Friday, April 17, 2009
Ninety Minutes In The Head Of The Over Thinker
Foreword: This is another cleaning out of my archives posts and probably one of the more personal essays I have written. It does have some angst agression poured into it, as I was going through some weird stuff. I was still frustrated at a realtionship that failed months before and at the ex, I was mad at my self for being over cautious on everything, and I thought I found the girl of my dreams. While I wont tell you how things worked out with her. I will tell you I resolved my frustrations, because days after writing this my ex contacted me and I worked some things out. This essay was a major tool for me to work out my frustrations (while I never actually have anything directed at her.) Also after this paper I did finally get over myself and starting being more outgoing.
So please forgive the angst and enjoy:
Here I am the hopeless, foolish romantic. I have always dreamed of finding the girl that truly understands me, and to my astonishment I have found her. But sadly, I can’t find the courage that I always thought I would have, if I ever found her, to just ask her out. Even as I write this piece she is sitting in the weight room one floor below me, doing her student work study. I know more than likely she is bored out of her skull; yet, I am sitting here writing about how I wish I had the courage to ask her out. I could go down there and be the White Knight to save her from her prison of boredom, but no. Here I am, sitting. Sitting in an empty student lounge listening to Beck and writing about how I wish I had courage. Soy un perdedor.
Her friend tells me I should get with her; my friends tell me the same--even the people I tutor tell me I should. Everyone thinks we should get together, but I still fail daily. I guess it would help if I had someone tell me that she feels the same. Just something to tell me I am not barking up the wrong tree. I need something, just something, to tell me that my investment in her isn’t going to turn south and bankrupt my emotions. I don’t think I can handle another bad investment.
It doesn’t help my situation that this woman is perfection incarnate. She is just like me; actually she is even worse than me in a certain sense. She is a shut in, a prisoner of her own emotions who is afraid to be close to another. She, just like me is career minded. Almost all of our classes are together and yet I am sitting here alone. I could be down there studying for the next exam, practicing our speeches, or even just chatting. She is the one I dreamed about, prayed about, and thought about. As corny as it sounds, she is constantly running laps in my mind. She is so beautiful and perfect, yet, I can’t get my act straight. Why?
Could it be that I’ve never really had a relationship? No, it isn’t that either, as she is as lonely as me. Could it be I never felt love? No. Could it be that I have negative body issues? That may be true, but it’s not likely. She has the same thoughts about herself, too. Could it be that I am so afraid of getting hurt and crushed that I can’t feel close to anyone, even if she is the one I have always dreamt about? Probably, I have been hurt so much in the past that I have become this callous jerk, or at least try to be. Yet around her I am . . . I am . . . I am . . . at a loss for words. I can’t be mean, I can’t be hateful, I can’t be angry. I am unable to push her away. I am opening up to her and setting myself up for another fall. This time I think it’s going to be hard, slow, and painful. I feel as if I am ripping my heart out of my chest slowly, tentatively and ever so slightly that I am unaware of what I am doing it until it’s already out of my chest, in my hand, beating in front of my face, and staring at me with its screaming, shrilling stare.
Wait, just wait. What if things go right? What if she is the one; the one; the sweet, glorious one? What if she is the one meant for me? What if she is feeling the same things? It’s possible. What if she is sitting down there wanting me to show that I DO want her? What if she is being callous and afraid to feel love? What if, what if, what if: I am the man who has lived on what if’s. I always think so far ahead that I often overshoot the goal. I am an over thinker, a cynic. I gave up my thoughts that love is real long ago I gave up hope that I would find her, the girl of my dreams, but God has sent me this angel that just smacks me in the face so hard that it shatters all my theories on love. She is everything that I wanted, everything I needed—at least thought I needed.
Why don’t I just go down there? Why don’t I ask her out? Why don’t I be the man that I have always thought I am, and go down there? Why can’t I? Am I such a loser and anti-social freak that I can’t even go down stairs and just say, “Hey!”?
Well, it’s almost time to start this roller coaster of emotion again. In about fourteen minutes she will be off and probably come in here and chat to me. I will again feel like I am falling for her, and probably at the end of the day I will feel like I don’t exist and I’m just some jerk that won’t leave her alone. Well, I just shared about ninety minutes of my life--Ninety of the LONGEST MINUTES of my life.
So please forgive the angst and enjoy:
Ninety Minutes In The Head Of The Over Thinker
Here I am the hopeless, foolish romantic. I have always dreamed of finding the girl that truly understands me, and to my astonishment I have found her. But sadly, I can’t find the courage that I always thought I would have, if I ever found her, to just ask her out. Even as I write this piece she is sitting in the weight room one floor below me, doing her student work study. I know more than likely she is bored out of her skull; yet, I am sitting here writing about how I wish I had the courage to ask her out. I could go down there and be the White Knight to save her from her prison of boredom, but no. Here I am, sitting. Sitting in an empty student lounge listening to Beck and writing about how I wish I had courage. Soy un perdedor.
Her friend tells me I should get with her; my friends tell me the same--even the people I tutor tell me I should. Everyone thinks we should get together, but I still fail daily. I guess it would help if I had someone tell me that she feels the same. Just something to tell me I am not barking up the wrong tree. I need something, just something, to tell me that my investment in her isn’t going to turn south and bankrupt my emotions. I don’t think I can handle another bad investment.
It doesn’t help my situation that this woman is perfection incarnate. She is just like me; actually she is even worse than me in a certain sense. She is a shut in, a prisoner of her own emotions who is afraid to be close to another. She, just like me is career minded. Almost all of our classes are together and yet I am sitting here alone. I could be down there studying for the next exam, practicing our speeches, or even just chatting. She is the one I dreamed about, prayed about, and thought about. As corny as it sounds, she is constantly running laps in my mind. She is so beautiful and perfect, yet, I can’t get my act straight. Why?
Could it be that I’ve never really had a relationship? No, it isn’t that either, as she is as lonely as me. Could it be I never felt love? No. Could it be that I have negative body issues? That may be true, but it’s not likely. She has the same thoughts about herself, too. Could it be that I am so afraid of getting hurt and crushed that I can’t feel close to anyone, even if she is the one I have always dreamt about? Probably, I have been hurt so much in the past that I have become this callous jerk, or at least try to be. Yet around her I am . . . I am . . . I am . . . at a loss for words. I can’t be mean, I can’t be hateful, I can’t be angry. I am unable to push her away. I am opening up to her and setting myself up for another fall. This time I think it’s going to be hard, slow, and painful. I feel as if I am ripping my heart out of my chest slowly, tentatively and ever so slightly that I am unaware of what I am doing it until it’s already out of my chest, in my hand, beating in front of my face, and staring at me with its screaming, shrilling stare.
Wait, just wait. What if things go right? What if she is the one; the one; the sweet, glorious one? What if she is the one meant for me? What if she is feeling the same things? It’s possible. What if she is sitting down there wanting me to show that I DO want her? What if she is being callous and afraid to feel love? What if, what if, what if: I am the man who has lived on what if’s. I always think so far ahead that I often overshoot the goal. I am an over thinker, a cynic. I gave up my thoughts that love is real long ago I gave up hope that I would find her, the girl of my dreams, but God has sent me this angel that just smacks me in the face so hard that it shatters all my theories on love. She is everything that I wanted, everything I needed—at least thought I needed.
Why don’t I just go down there? Why don’t I ask her out? Why don’t I be the man that I have always thought I am, and go down there? Why can’t I? Am I such a loser and anti-social freak that I can’t even go down stairs and just say, “Hey!”?
Well, it’s almost time to start this roller coaster of emotion again. In about fourteen minutes she will be off and probably come in here and chat to me. I will again feel like I am falling for her, and probably at the end of the day I will feel like I don’t exist and I’m just some jerk that won’t leave her alone. Well, I just shared about ninety minutes of my life--Ninety of the LONGEST MINUTES of my life.
Thursday, April 16, 2009
Batman VS Superman: A Compare and Contrast Piece
A little bit of a foreword:
I wrote this following essay for a class assignment last semester in English 1010. It was a compare and contrast paper, and being the nerd that I am, I decided to compare Superman and Batman. The paper was alright and I believe I got an "A" on it. I wrote this in one night at 2 AM, about 6 hours before it was due. It isn't my best work nor the worst. I just felt like posting something askew for the first post and I didn't want to type up something entirely new right away. So, this was all I could find on my computer. Try to sit back and enjoy this essay, and next one will be a lot better.
Now I present:
Not often in literary history do two characters contrast and match each other so well. Batman and Superman are the figure heads of DC comics and were the only characters keeping the comic giant above the rising waters of collapse. It is natural that the characters, both sixty plus years in print, have acquired a massive fan base. The fan base of the two juggernauts of comics have been known to attack one another with claims on who is superior or who is the most interesting. With all of the fan "wars" several reoccurring traits of the characters have been the basis of most claims on who is truly the best comic book character. Those traits are: the origins of the characters, their secret identities, and the style of justice they deliver.
First let's talk about the Man of Steel himself, Superman-or Clark Kent if you prefer. His comic book origin, oddly enough, has gone through some odd changes and ret-cons during his tenure. Essentially the various origin stories all have Superman coming from his home planet of Krypton in a rocket, narrowly escaping the apocalypse that shattered his world; he was sent to the planet Earth. Where he was found by Jonathan and Martha Kent, a caring family from Smallvile longing for a child, they raised him as one of their own. In some tells, Clark began using his powers at a young age as the hero Superboy, but recently that was removed from history as it didn't make sense in the Chronological time line. Clark would eventually leave the city of Smallville to go into Metropolis. There he developed the Superman persona and began to defend the world from the likes of Lex Luthor, Braniac, and various foes.
Superman's secret identity is often a major topic of discussion when the nerds gather. One argument is that Superman is his real identity and Clark Kent is his alter ego; being that he was born with his powers instead of gaining them in life. Others argue that he is Clark Kent that just so happens to be Superman; since he was raised to be human and later discovered he had powers. Either way both sides agree that Superman purposefully made his mild mannered ego act different to Superman in every way. Clumsy, bumbling, and not all there, best describes Clark when compared to his Superman persona. Clark has gone so far out of his way that he often fools those he is around all the time, both as Superman and Clark. Lois Lane, Clark's love interest, never figured out the identity of Superman despite being the one human, other than those of the superhero society, to be around Superman the most. Shows how far he goes with the personality change considering that the only thing hiding his identity is a pair of glasses and a "spit-curl".
Superman, with the benefit of his secret identity, has developed a style of justice all his own. Instead of hunting down villains, Superman just stands back and reacts to every crisis, threat, and emergency, always protecting the lives of the innocent-and sometimes the evil-from immediate danger. Only after everyone is safe that he will take on the main threat that is at hand.
Batman is a stark contrast to the Last Son of Krypton, for starters, Batman's origins are slightly different from Superman. Batman being born into a wealthy family as Bruce Wayne lived a normal life until at a very young age his parents were killed at gunpoint during a back alley robbery. This moment would shape young Bruce Wayne's life as he was raised by his loyal butler Alfred until he turned eighteen. At the age of eighteen, Bruce began to travel the globe learning various martial arts and weapons training. After about six or seven years of globe hopping, Bruce returns to Gotham City and finds it corrupted beyond all belief. With crime lords ruling the streets and government offices, Bruce decides to take matters in his own hands. Using the bat-an image to strike fear in the crooks and villains of the city-Bruce developed the persona Batman. Compiling all his newly acquired skills and technology, courtesy of his own company Wayne Enterprises, Bruce wages an all out war against crime.
With all of this vigilante style of dealing with crime, Bruce was required to take up a secret identity in order to remain safe. Bruce did this by making Batman and Bruce fundamentally different. Bruce was seen primarily in the day and only out at night for mandatory public engagements to distract any possible ideas of him being Batman. In stark contrast, Batman is never scene in the day time (Unless fighting with the Justice League) and never makes public appearances (again unless we is with the Justice League). Bruce is fun and outgoing; trying anything and everything. He becomes a billionaire playboy spending outrageous amounts of money on lavish luxuries. Contrasting, Batman is brooding and often rude to those he is around (and yes even the Justice League). Never going over the top and playing it conservative. Another question often asked is, "Is Batman the alter ego or is it Bruce Wayne?" Much like the Superman debate this is highly disputed.
With his secret identity Batman can deliver his own brand of justice. His style of justice is like that of a cowboy in the western movies of old. He came into a crime filled town and hunts down the cancer that is killing the city. While he is proactive instead of reactive, Batman is more of a detective. He uses his brains to hunt down his villains. While smarter than the average human, Batman is still only human and makes mistakes in his judgment, often plaguing him throughout his life.
All in all Batman and Superman are fundamentally different. Comparing them is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are great and are too different to be compared to one another to see which is better. Sure they may have different origins, similar style of identities and of course differing style of justice. Most fans that want to argue this point should just sit down and read the characters for what they are and what they are not.
I wrote this following essay for a class assignment last semester in English 1010. It was a compare and contrast paper, and being the nerd that I am, I decided to compare Superman and Batman. The paper was alright and I believe I got an "A" on it. I wrote this in one night at 2 AM, about 6 hours before it was due. It isn't my best work nor the worst. I just felt like posting something askew for the first post and I didn't want to type up something entirely new right away. So, this was all I could find on my computer. Try to sit back and enjoy this essay, and next one will be a lot better.
Now I present:
Batman vs Superman
Not often in literary history do two characters contrast and match each other so well. Batman and Superman are the figure heads of DC comics and were the only characters keeping the comic giant above the rising waters of collapse. It is natural that the characters, both sixty plus years in print, have acquired a massive fan base. The fan base of the two juggernauts of comics have been known to attack one another with claims on who is superior or who is the most interesting. With all of the fan "wars" several reoccurring traits of the characters have been the basis of most claims on who is truly the best comic book character. Those traits are: the origins of the characters, their secret identities, and the style of justice they deliver.
First let's talk about the Man of Steel himself, Superman-or Clark Kent if you prefer. His comic book origin, oddly enough, has gone through some odd changes and ret-cons during his tenure. Essentially the various origin stories all have Superman coming from his home planet of Krypton in a rocket, narrowly escaping the apocalypse that shattered his world; he was sent to the planet Earth. Where he was found by Jonathan and Martha Kent, a caring family from Smallvile longing for a child, they raised him as one of their own. In some tells, Clark began using his powers at a young age as the hero Superboy, but recently that was removed from history as it didn't make sense in the Chronological time line. Clark would eventually leave the city of Smallville to go into Metropolis. There he developed the Superman persona and began to defend the world from the likes of Lex Luthor, Braniac, and various foes.
Superman's secret identity is often a major topic of discussion when the nerds gather. One argument is that Superman is his real identity and Clark Kent is his alter ego; being that he was born with his powers instead of gaining them in life. Others argue that he is Clark Kent that just so happens to be Superman; since he was raised to be human and later discovered he had powers. Either way both sides agree that Superman purposefully made his mild mannered ego act different to Superman in every way. Clumsy, bumbling, and not all there, best describes Clark when compared to his Superman persona. Clark has gone so far out of his way that he often fools those he is around all the time, both as Superman and Clark. Lois Lane, Clark's love interest, never figured out the identity of Superman despite being the one human, other than those of the superhero society, to be around Superman the most. Shows how far he goes with the personality change considering that the only thing hiding his identity is a pair of glasses and a "spit-curl".
Superman, with the benefit of his secret identity, has developed a style of justice all his own. Instead of hunting down villains, Superman just stands back and reacts to every crisis, threat, and emergency, always protecting the lives of the innocent-and sometimes the evil-from immediate danger. Only after everyone is safe that he will take on the main threat that is at hand.
Batman is a stark contrast to the Last Son of Krypton, for starters, Batman's origins are slightly different from Superman. Batman being born into a wealthy family as Bruce Wayne lived a normal life until at a very young age his parents were killed at gunpoint during a back alley robbery. This moment would shape young Bruce Wayne's life as he was raised by his loyal butler Alfred until he turned eighteen. At the age of eighteen, Bruce began to travel the globe learning various martial arts and weapons training. After about six or seven years of globe hopping, Bruce returns to Gotham City and finds it corrupted beyond all belief. With crime lords ruling the streets and government offices, Bruce decides to take matters in his own hands. Using the bat-an image to strike fear in the crooks and villains of the city-Bruce developed the persona Batman. Compiling all his newly acquired skills and technology, courtesy of his own company Wayne Enterprises, Bruce wages an all out war against crime.
With all of this vigilante style of dealing with crime, Bruce was required to take up a secret identity in order to remain safe. Bruce did this by making Batman and Bruce fundamentally different. Bruce was seen primarily in the day and only out at night for mandatory public engagements to distract any possible ideas of him being Batman. In stark contrast, Batman is never scene in the day time (Unless fighting with the Justice League) and never makes public appearances (again unless we is with the Justice League). Bruce is fun and outgoing; trying anything and everything. He becomes a billionaire playboy spending outrageous amounts of money on lavish luxuries. Contrasting, Batman is brooding and often rude to those he is around (and yes even the Justice League). Never going over the top and playing it conservative. Another question often asked is, "Is Batman the alter ego or is it Bruce Wayne?" Much like the Superman debate this is highly disputed.
With his secret identity Batman can deliver his own brand of justice. His style of justice is like that of a cowboy in the western movies of old. He came into a crime filled town and hunts down the cancer that is killing the city. While he is proactive instead of reactive, Batman is more of a detective. He uses his brains to hunt down his villains. While smarter than the average human, Batman is still only human and makes mistakes in his judgment, often plaguing him throughout his life.
All in all Batman and Superman are fundamentally different. Comparing them is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are great and are too different to be compared to one another to see which is better. Sure they may have different origins, similar style of identities and of course differing style of justice. Most fans that want to argue this point should just sit down and read the characters for what they are and what they are not.
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